Solved: Remove win8 - not booting live discs

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hamley

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Hi,
my apologies, posted this yesterday on wrong Forum ("all other software") getting old.
just bought a new hp laptop with Win 8 installed. HP G6-2208AV, Made backup discs.
Laptop will not boot any live discs e.g. Gparted, Ubuntu 12.04 . Drive plays dvd's etc. so appears to be working, just spins up then nothing. Drive and contents of discs that won't boot, show in "Computer"
I have set both uefi and Legacy to boot Optical drive first, and have disabled Secure boot in bios.
I have a number of usb devices that will not work, and cannot be made to
work,no drivers available for Win 8 ( usb tv tuner is one) so intend to buy a stand alone copy of Win 7 32 bit, and install that, and dual boot Ubuntu, which worked fine dual boot on Win 7.
My plan is to get rid of win 8, which has been nothing but a pain, 3rd party sofware working one minute then "Not Responding" the next, and installing Win 7 , where all my usb devices could be made to work.

How can I format the drive and Totally remove all traces of win8. I only have the recovery disks,
don't really care if I don't see Win 8 again. Left 2 messages for help on Microsoft site, they didn't have the good manners to reply to either.
Thanks in advance
hamley



 
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You should be able to boot and use most any partitioning tool by disabling UEFI.
 

hamley

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Can't disable UEFI, Quote from bios help
"When Legacy support is enabled Bios will load compatibility
support module (CSM) to support legacy OS such as Win 7 vista xp and dos
When legacy support is disabled BIOS will boot in UEFI mode without CSM
to support newer operating systems such as Windows 8."
So cannot boot any partitioning tool, which is my existing problem. Problem may be solvable
if I had a standalone Win 8 disk, but don't get one now, cheap and nasty backup discs. You pay for one license but don't really get one. If machine dies, pay for another copy for a new machine.
hamley
 

Macboatmaster

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Hi
There are many aspects to your post although at first it seems rather basic.

There are a number of important points you should consider

There is an answer to your problems HOWEVER it is not easy and you may well encounter problems in trying to achieve what you wish

May I start by offering you this
I am not an expert on this 8 and UEFI by any stretch of the imagination, but I have on this computer a triple boot with 8 pro, 7 pro and xp

I have spent countless hours studying 8 and UEFI etc and may be able to help

It is going to be a long job

The first issue is you cannot dual boot 8 with 12.04
12.10 is the first Ubuntu made with that will install to UEFI and secure boot
If you attempt to install 12.04 to legacy mode you will not load windows as the GRUB on 12.04 does not allow it

For now please read this and I am signing off in about 30 mins as I am in the UK

I will add it to this post within two minutes it is from one of my articles I have prepared on 8 UEFI etc. Here it is for you

Please read this FIRST

There are a number of considerations. I have tried to place them in order of importance

1. If this goes wrong you will get no help whatsoever from the OEM eg Dell HP Toshiba etc - at least not meaningful free help under any warrantry
I doubt if you wil get any from the supplier - if not purchased direct

2. You must before you even contemplate it ensure you have the means to reinstall 8 in the form you wish - in case it goes wrong.
That maybe the installation disc
A full system image
but NOT the recovery partition on the Hard drive as that will be wiped - formatted

3. If it is NOT 64 bit Windows it cannot be installed in UEFI system as that uses what is known as GPT partitioning and 32 bit Windows 7 cannot boot from a GPT partitioned drive. Therefore it has to be installed in what is known as legacy mode - the old traditional BIOS
The image cannot then be reinstalled to that drive if you get that far, as the drive must be formatted GPT
and the UEFI must be reconfigured before that can occur and windows 8 can be reinstalled.

4. If it is 64 bit windows 7 then you have the problem of getting a boot from the DVD as the Secure boot in 8 will not allow that
YOU should have an entry, after you have disabled secure boot which will allow the boot from the DVD
HOWEVER that depends on what the DVD is

5. YOU MUST CHECK before you proceed that Windows 7 drivers are available for that computer
Some OEMS have stated that they will not be providing 7 drivers for Windows 8 computers on which it is sold pre installed

That should have given you enough information to consider carefully your position.
 

Macboatmaster

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As I said in my previous I am signing off very shortly

Here is WHY it must be 12.10 see the explanation and why you should follow this guide and install in UEFI and not legacy mode
if the other systems (Windows Vista/7/8, GNU/Linux...) of your computer are installed in EFI mode, then you must install Ubuntu in EFI mode too.

https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UEFI

I have gone - goodnight if you wish my further attempts to help I will be back about 1600 UK time


Finally I would repeat think carefully before you proceed with your intentions
When I come back I will if you have replied explain why you cannot boot that computer pre-installed with 8 from some USB devices - depending on what is on them and some optical discs - CDs DVD`s

Basically for now UEFI and GPT which are working together boot NOT from a drive or device a such but from a file and although UEFI can read from NTFS file systems it cannot boot from them. It must boot from a FAT32 file system.
 

hamley

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Thanks for that info Macboatmaster,
it is my intent to remove win 8 and hopefully install win 7 in it's place.
I don't plan to ever re-install win 8, so nothing will be installed in EFI mode, windows is not
the operating system I usually use, that being Ubuntu 12.04 at the moment, so would be happy to
stay with legacy mode. I have a set of recovery discs so if sometime in the future if I should
have a major revelation will worry about re-installing Win 8 then. If that is not possible I won't lose any sleep.
According to HP the drivers for this machine are available for Win 7, which I only use to test
open source applications that have been ported to Windows, Gimp Scribus etc. for those I know
who I haven't been able to get to try Ubuntu, and some usb devices that won't work on Linux.

Please there is no hurry, it will be another week before I can afford a copy of Win 7(am on a pension), although I would like to install Ubuntu on the entire drive before I partition it to dual boot both Win 7 and Ubuntu (re-install), am a little paranoid, and would like to be sure I have wiped all trace of win 8. Another possibility I buy a new drive and go ahead from there, at the moment the machine is as good as useless to me.

Thanks again
Hamley
 

Macboatmaster

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Follow the advice in the link I sent

https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UEFI

see General principles on there.
Please remember that you must use the 64 bit Ubuntu as that will see the UEFI without a problem
If you are committed to the idea if starting afresh then of course you select

  • nothing special is required if you use the automatic installer of Ubuntu ("Install Ubuntu alongside others" or "Erase the disk and install Ubuntu"). Important: if you have a pre-installed Windows and you want to keep it, do not choose "Erase the disk and install Ubuntu".
This link is also helpful
http://askubuntu.com/questions/2218...pre-installed-uefi-supported-windows-8-system
 

Macboatmaster

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I have just read the Ubuntu worked fine on dual boot with win 7 on your first post, so is that WIN7 still in use as you say you are having to buy win7

and unless I have the wrong model of HP it has windows 8 64 bit
and the ram is
Memory, standard
4 GB 1600 MHz DDR3 (2 x 2 GB)
Memory, maximum
Upgradeable to 8 GB DDR3
so I would not install 32 bit windows, as of course it will only see 3.5 or so of ram and 32 bit cannot be installed in UEFI so then you will be back to legacy mode for both and you will lose any ability to upgrade the ram with a 32 bit, as you will of course on Ubuntu
 

hamley

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Have read most of that, but would like to get rid of win8, my usb devices won't work on it.
Happy to get win7 32 bit and use that, but no references anywhere that I can find to go back to
legacy. My machine can be run in legacy mode, which with 32bit Ubuntu 12.04 will do all I need
without hassles. Not worried about warranty issues, can remember that even using Firefox caused help to vanish, Linux certainly not covered. How do I get into win8, remove it, and install 32bit 12.04? Are there any problems with GPT remaining on drive?
Thanks again
hamley
 

hamley

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Had win7 on machine that monitor died, Acer machine, only 14 months old new monitor nearly the price of new machine, should have repaired it. Didn't get a stand alone disc, the usual recovery discs so had to pay for another copy of win8 on new machine (included in price of machine).

Not happy with Microsoft, as I will not connect windows to internet, don't have a land line,
and win8 cost me $37.00 on my mobile phone to validate, "free call" numbers are not free on mobiles here. Will have to do it again with Win 7. New machine came with 4 gig ram, which does all I ask of it, don't use anything really ram intensive. Happy when I have no hassles:)
hamley
 

Macboatmaster

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You are welcome. My apologies for repeating what I have said but I just wonder if I have not explained it well or perhaps you are missing part of it, as I have sent quite a lot

1. The HP has 62 bit windows 8, whether you are keeping it or not you can install Ubuntu 64 bit the 12.10 is designed to handle the uefi boot
See my previous links

2. If you go down the 32 bit road, you lose any ability to increase the ram see my post 8 and indeed will not really use all of the 4GB

3. Additionally to that you can never reinstall 8 in 32 bit mode

4. The other point I was making is that you say that win7 dual booted OK with Ubuntu, so presumably you have it or had it on another computer
It cannot of course be used on this if it is still on the other and it depends if this will accept the product key of course, but if it is NOT in use on the other computer DO YOU NEED to buy it.

5. My advice is as I said - in view of the fact that you are committed to UNINSTALLING 8 which is NOT the way I would go, but that is your choice - then I would install the 64 bit Ubuntu and eventually a 64 bit windows 7

6. If the reason for this drastic decision is the problems on 8 on that HP if you list them I MAY be able to solve them for you
for instance many programs can be run in compatibility mode
on the HP key the windows key and then type - I know there is no place to type
comp -
you will not get that far before the screen changes to show the search box, now click settings below that as your search area
continue typing
compatibility
and you will not complete it before the options open on the left

I feel reasonably certain unless it is very old that we can find the drivers for the usb tv tuner
 

Macboatmaster

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bbearren

GPT etc from your last indeed - I agree as below

If it is NOT 64 bit Windows it cannot be installed in UEFI system as that uses what is known as GPT partitioning and 32 bit Windows 7 cannot boot from a GPT partitioned drive. Therefore it has to be installed in what is known as legacy mode - the old traditional BIOS
The image cannot then be reinstalled to that drive if you get that far, as the drive must be formatted GPT
and the UEFI must be reconfigured before that can occur and windows 8 can be reinstalled.
and that is why he must use the 64 bit Ubuntu
which is UEFI and therefore GPT compatible

from the link I have included
To install Ubuntu in EFI mode:
  • Use a 64bit disk of Ubuntu (32bit installer does not detect EFI)
  • Use the last version of Ubuntu. Support for UEFI appeared in 11.10, but has become more reliable in next versions. Support for UEFI SecureBoot appeared in 12.10.
  • Set up your firmware (BIOS) to boot the disk in UEFI mode (see the "Identifying if the computer boots the HDD in EFI mode" paragraph below)
  • Then:
    • nothing special is required if you use the automatic installer of Ubuntu ("Install Ubuntu alongside others" or "Erase the disk and install Ubuntu"). Important: if you have a pre-installed Windows and you want to keep it, do not choose "Erase the disk and install Ubuntu".
and additionally if it is UEFI it is GPT and UEFI does not boot from a device as such, it boots from a file and in the case of a flash pen the drive must be formatted FAT32 as it will not boot from an NTFS file system
and when Windows is installed and the disk is prepared GPT the boot files are in a small partition which is itself FAT32

IF YOU WISH TO CONTINUE BY PM I would welcome that.

hamley

Sorry about the small diversion but I wanted you to be clear that Ubuntu 12.10 64 bit will cause you less problems than trying to boot in legacy mode.
 

hamley

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So as I understand it, must admit getting a little confused, If I use 64bit windows 7 it should overwrite win 8, then I can install 12.10 64bit, using UEFI my problems should be solved? (with secure boot disabled) Win7 64 bit should run my usb devices that all worked on win7 32bit?
The only good thing I have found with win 8, is after using it for a short time it has made me quite like
Unity desktop in Ubuntu 1204, I didn't care for it pre win8, now it's great.
Hamley
 

Macboatmaster

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Yes - I am sorry if my diversion to answer bbearren - caused you any confusion.

YOU are correct, but you still have not told me if you have Win 7 product key that is NOT in use as per my post 12, where I have itemised the points

YOU CAN install UBUNTU 12.10 NOW or at least you can when you have the DVD.
then when you have 7 you can install that as a dual boot

HOWEVER it is commonly thought that it is best to install WINDOWS first and then the Linux based system


and please see item 6 my post 12 - if the only reason for leaving 8 is the usb etc I am reasonably certain we may sort it out
 
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