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Stop resenting the U.S.

Discussion in 'Random Discussion' started by LANMaster, Feb 10, 2003.

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  1. LANMaster

    LANMaster Banned Thread Starter

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    From Bill O'Reilly's No Spin Zone
    .............. The truth is that we're going to war to maintain stability in the world. If a madman like Saddam used deadly weapons to get control of the Gulf oil flow, the entire world would be at his mercy.

    The United States now drives the world economy. If this country goes down the tubes business-wise, the whole world suffers. We make, buy and donate most of the world's goods. So any intrusion on our security is bad for the whole world and many resent that.

    If the United States was an imperialist power, we would have done what the Soviets did after World War II, enslave countries. Instead, we rebuilt Japan and Germany and most of Europe, allowing millions to live in freedom at our expense.

    Now, I'm getting real tired of ignorant Americans blasting their country when they're clueless about history and geopolitics. Many of the loudest voices of dissent are also the dumbest voices.

    The truth is that America must now protect itself against fanatics who hate freedom and knowledge. And we must protect the world without the help of cowardly countries like France and Germany, and opportunistic countries like China and Russia.

    The task is almost impossible, but if anyone can do it, we can.

    --------- Bill O'reilly
     
  2. $teve

    $teve

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    i think bill should get his head out of his blinkered right wing"theres only one country that matters in this world" arse and think of something constructive....not DESTRUCTIVE.

    the truth is the US will have to wait a while before they start shooting up iraq.

    the word BIGOT comes to mind.
    the guy is a joke............or was that the point you were trying to make LAN?
     
  3. eggplant43

    eggplant43 A True Heart and Soul - Gone But Never Forgotten

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    Best description of Right Wing Zealots I've ever seen;)

    Sorry LM, I couldn't resist, Bill set it up so nicely:D
     
  4. $teve

    $teve

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    ZEALOT.................i knew id missed something off:D


    thanx eggy;)
     
  5. Davey7549

    Davey7549

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    You know it is a shame when I view intelligent people turn to name calling and stereotyping when someones opinion does not fit neatly within their own world and agenda. I agree Bill had a sharp tongue on the matter and some rather strong opinions but does that constitute painting all "Right Wing individuals" with the same brush! There seems to have been plenty of name calling here lately and for me personally it is unbecoming of some that I have held respected opinions of!

    Dave
     
  6. eggplant43

    eggplant43 A True Heart and Soul - Gone But Never Forgotten

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    If it was my post you took offense at, I apologize. It was definitely NOT aimed at Conservatives at all. It was aimed at "Right Wing Zealots" like Balzac. I hope this clarifies things, and puts me back in your good graces.:)
     
  7. Davey7549

    Davey7549

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    No Bruce it was only your post that lit that last candle on the cake of disgust that has been baking for quite awhile. It seemed up to this point some of the level headed albeit opinionated at times individuals keep their wits about them during this deluge. But now there seems to be an extra ordinary amount of negativity here and it is wearing on me I guess.
    Maybe I should take my self out of Random for a bit.

    Dave
     
  8. Jonesiegirl

    Jonesiegirl Guest

    I hear ya Davey ... I've been feelin' the negativity as well ... and may even have cast a bit of it out there myself... :(
     
  9. pyritechips

    pyritechips Gone but Never Forgotten

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    First Name:
    Jim
    I said:
    And Davey said:
    I intended to stay out but I always hope for calmer heads to prevail. Hang in there Davey! :)
     
  10. eggplant43

    eggplant43 A True Heart and Soul - Gone But Never Forgotten

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    I've gotten rather tired of the word "Liberal" being thrown around like an epithet, and perhaps this was my response. Using humor rather than anger, or righteousness. I guess I kind of thought of it as the price of entry. I'll have to reflect upon this some more.

    Like Mulder has said (to paraphrase him) on more than one ocassion "we've been in some rather heated debates, but I'd like to think you are my friend, and when it comes down to it, you'd be there by my side".

    I think the tenseness that is in the air of the world is reflected here at TSG as well.
     
  11. Dark Star

    Dark Star

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    Thread topics are opportunities for everyone to have a chance to express their opinions within proper context, however sometimes providing proactive responses is not always feasible and specially wherein politics and religion are concerned.

    Thread starters, usually understand their part in making the desired outcome happen, I've seen it enough times to know that it's nothing more than just another new post being made in an effort to obtain a certain reply..... new post old topic. :rolleyes:

    I try to not read too much into "copy/paste politics".... IMO the authors of "copy/paste" thread topics should consider stating their intent, and perhaps post their very own comments about the "copy/paste topic" thread they start.... not that it really matters because bait is bait ;) .... think of it as Random Politics.

    One more thing what is the deal with everyone "quoting" an entire post before they reply to it? ... it's like a copy/paste of a copy/paste.

    my two cents ... keep the change.

    DS
     
  12. Wino

    Wino

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    TSG Random would be a dull and boring place if everyone agreed on every subject. Labels and name calling are used for effect when the poster is losing his argument or on shakey ground. I, for one, did not agree with banning Balzac - thought he had a real flare for words making his point - even though some things he said were offensive and his politics 180 degree from mine - he was passionate on his position - as most are that post here. I am amused by the poster that starts a thread, stating or C/P an article which mirrors their view, then gets upset when others do not share the same position or values. What has been posted in this thread regarding Bill O'Rielly's C/P is mild compared to some about Molly Ivins in other threads. If posters 'can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen'. The negative comments posted in the thread regarding foreign perceptions of America started by AlbertB from Britain is a prime example of intolerance, arrogance, ignorance and distortion of his intended point - to think ouside the box - hopefully he will return to TSG as he appeared to be a most literate and reasonable individual - if he does not, wouldn't blame him. It seems some think TSG is their own personal playpen, and you are welcome, just as long as you don't rock their boat.
     
  13. hijo de vato

    hijo de vato

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    now now kids...... don't fight-
    this is the land of the free and the home of the brave!
    AND THAT WE ARE!!!!!
    we are granted so many more freedoms in this land than any other country on the planet...... and one of them is SPEECH!
    -- plus--- you have the freedom to purchase a one-way ticket to the habitat of your choice if'n you don' like this un'....

    "i'll give up my gun when they pry it from my cold dead hand"
     
  14. RandyG

    RandyG

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    Hey hijo, if you're in the arctic circle, you aren't in the land of the free and home of the brave. Your post does nothing more than fuel hatred against the States, so lay off.

    Wino - I'll agree with some of your points, but Balzak intruded on to omany threads, and insulted anyone who did not agree with him. That's not passionate, it's rude and offensive. I'll also agree that some here at TSG think of it as their own personal stomping grounds. I use the term we at TSG whenever I am at another forum and want to describe my home away from home. TSG has become that, and like many others who belong to this online family we resent the Heck out of anyone coming in and rocking the boat. Most of us love to debate, but when the other is not willing to do anything but hurl abuse, then it is not a debate . . . it's a pissing contest, and I, frankly, have better things to do.

    eggplant - I agree, the worlds tensions are reflected quite well here at TSG, because Mikey created a place where all of us from around the world can express ourselves, as well as help ourselves.


    The rest, namecalling is the last refuge of the weak minded, but that in itself is namecalling, so does that mean . . .:eek:


    simple enough to say that we should all stop complaining about things that are out of our controil, and start exercising things that are in our control, such as restraint from feeding Trolls on this site, who are looking for nothing more than a fight. As always, andswer threads that appeal to your area of interest, but ones that are so obviously smacking of hatred and loathing, and attempts to hget someone to step into a ring for nothing more than a smack in the face . . . those should be left to die a lonely death.
     
  15. AlbertB

    AlbertB

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    Wino, Gawd bless ya Guvnor. You noticed! Truly - In vino veritas.

    Since the fiasco of that posting the other night I stepped back to think. I had to do a lot of thinking because what it displayed to me is important. I am not a dedicated online forum cruiser. TSG was my first real dip. I discovered TSG because of a need for help with IT issues, and found a community of people who gave their hard earned knowledge freely, to anyone who needed, as they needed. Intellectual Socialists if you will ;) . I had no need to take on the forum and its members as an extension of my social life.

    The global events of the last few years have been an increasing pressure on me over here in Europe, as with many of us. We are after all closer than you to the seat of the problem and in range. I have the deepest fear for our own men and women put at risk by them. I have also a deep sympathy with and fear for American personnel, and Turkish and - well anyone who has to put their life on the line following their leader's orders. I therefore have an inbuilt deep distrust of all leader's orders and want to understand what is behind them and what has led to the necessity of giving them. And I am not so blind and stupid as to always believe that their orders are right and their motives are pure just because they are my leaders! They are human and fallible.

    As you gather I have a personal view of "the average American", whatever that dopey sounding phrase means. It is inevitable, after all, like it or not, you have a view of "the average Englishman". I resist the concept as much as possible, of course I know we are all individuals, but it is inevitable that the people we meet, the information we take onboard from all sources, should form expectations. I always wish to break out of that box of expectations and decided to step into the TSG forum to expand myself and learn more about you first hand and in your home. How could I do this while seeming to respectfully keep the status of guest and let you remain as the host?

    So I made my first posting in the "Columbia" thread. A chance to offer heartfelt genuine sympathy on a non-controversial subject from a friend you didn't know you had. I latched onto LANmaster's thought as he posted concerns about the rejoicing of some areas of the Arab world, a concern I share here in Britain where that aspect has been even more acute. Others shared their disgust at this and, as I had a little personal experience of Arab matters, I jumped in. At LANmaster's suggestion I posted "A foreigner's view of American policy".

    It told you up front I held a foreigner's position, it revolved around the burning topic of the day, it would surely give me an insight into current thinking over there. I realised I was putting my neck on the line by offering "a view" but I thought I could contain things if I remained open to what you told me, sensitive in the way I addressed differences in our thinking, and accepted that you would want to give me your "foreigner's" views on our British position. That last was of great interest to me also. Overall I tried to be polite and honest. What did I find?

    I found everything I hoped I would. I found people who were intelligent, thoughtful, self-questioning, listening, patient. At first. I was coming to the conclusion that I had at my fingers positive answers to some interesting questions within myself about Americans. Then...

    I began to find everything I had been afraid I might. I came across arrogance, intolerance, closed mindedness, a HUGE chip on the shoulder, fanatacism, fundamentalist zealotry, a distorted view of the truth, offensiveness without thought or preparation, mistrust, paranoia. Not so good. The thread was to have revolved around how Americans, and then all of us, shape their own image in the rest of the world's eyes, and how that may lead to problems:rolleyes: . Not how Americans are, how they look from outside. You can't know that, you are too close, people in my position can offer you our first hand knowledge of it.

    I made the point in one posting that the ones who shape foreigner's views are the ones who give the most negative impression. And foreigner's views are what you are dealing with as soon as you set foot outside your own borders. How do you think I feel about you at the moment? Do you care? In the bigger picture, we are not going to stop the coming conflict by discussing such matters. Sadam Hussein will be removed in one way or another, by America alone, or with others. American's did not create him. But the aftermath of his removal will be a legacy of ammunition in the hands of those who try to warp the minds of their people and children to terrorism throughout the world. A strong factor in those people's ability to resist that warping will be - guess what I am about to say - their "foreigner's view of America and Americans". That is why you should care about how the rest of the world views you. For the future. Or is it your plan to keep on sounding off and flexing your adolescent muscles and simply blitzing through increasingly stronger incidences of hatred until there is noone left standing beside you, like the French Germans and Belgians, or they have even all moved to the side opposing you? Where will your way of life slide to then? These are points made in sadness not in anger, I have at no time in any of my postings allowed anger to creep in.

    I do not think that I will be playing so readily in the TSG sandbox again, some of the children there are bullies, so few Tommys and Chuckys and so many Angelicaz. I could stay and fight them but in this case there are other sandboxes with kids who are more like me, and if I come back I will always have one eye on my back. Mistrust breeds maxtrust. It seems fine to post as a Brit providing I agree with you but you seem to see criticism as an insult, and to take any on board and decide it needs to be acted upon as weakness. I am not so sure where openness and honesty in my dealings would get me and I know no other way. You see, I have been brought up in a British atmosphere of Freedom, the Best in the World! I have answers which will keep me going until I find some other place to ask more questions. You supplied those answers, yourselves, without help manipulation or subterfuge on my part. Not bolstering in me a formerly held preconceived idea, but surprising me with a saddening new one.

    In the bigger picture, I'm really not so sure now who my friends are, and my friendship towards you seems an irrelevancy! I listened to the news concerning Germany France and Belgium this morning, and I became aware of a slight feeling, fight it though I may, of, "maybe they have a point", which definitely was not there yesterday. Now where did that come from?

    I posted here not to winge. If buttkicking is what gives you your jollies, well, you've had some sad pleasure at my expense. But this thread posed the request, (order?), Stop resenting the US. I can answer this one in a much simpler fashion than all of the above, but perhaps because of it - Why?
     
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