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unexpected windows shutdown

Discussion in 'Windows 7' started by jayeliot, May 29, 2012.

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  1. jayeliot

    jayeliot Thread Starter

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2003
    Messages:
    364
    Hope you can help. I have had 4 unexpected Windows shutdowns this week, none before. The only change that I recall was updating / installing a new version of Lavasoft Ad-Aware. I have uninstalled it entirely but still had 2 shutdowns since then. Not knowing what might help you, I have attached a Hi-Jack log. Thanks


    Tech Support Guy System Info Utility version 1.0.0.2
    OS Version: Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium, Service Pack 1, 64 bit
    Processor: Pentium(R) Dual-Core CPU T4400 @ 2.20GHz, Intel64 Family 6 Model 23 Stepping 10
    Processor Count: 2
    RAM: 2939 Mb
    Graphics Card: Mobile Intel(R) 4 Series Express Chipset Family, 1341 Mb
    Hard Drives: C: Total - 294453 MB, Free - 230914 MB;
    Motherboard: TOSHIBA, Portable PC
    Antivirus: Symantec Endpoint Protection, Updated and Enabled





    Logfile of Trend Micro HijackThis v2.0.4
    Scan saved at 3:40:16 PM, on 5/29/2012
    Platform: Windows 7 SP1 (WinNT 6.00.3505)
    MSIE: Internet Explorer v8.00 (8.00.7601.17514)
    Boot mode: Normal

    Running processes:
    C:\Program Files (x86)\Symantec\Symantec Endpoint Protection\ProtectionUtilSurrogate.exe
    C:\Program Files (x86)\Spybot - Search & Destroy\TeaTimer.exe
    C:\Program Files (x86)\Google\GoogleToolbarNotifier\GoogleToolbarNotifier.exe
    C:\Program Files (x86)\Common Files\Symantec Shared\ccApp.exe
    C:\Program Files (x86)\Comcast\Desktop Doctor\bin\sprtcmd.exe
    C:\Program Files (x86)\HP\HP Software Update\hpwuschd2.exe
    C:\Program Files (x86)\iTunes\iTunesHelper.exe
    C:\ProgramData\Ad-Aware Browsing Protection\adawarebp.exe
    C:\Program Files (x86)\TOSHIBA\ConfigFree\NDSTray.exe
    C:\Program Files (x86)\TOSHIBA\ConfigFree\CFSwMgr.exe
    C:\Users\Jay\AppData\Local\Google\Chrome\Application\chrome.exe
    C:\Users\Jay\AppData\Local\Google\Chrome\Application\chrome.exe
    C:\windows\SysWOW64\rundll32.exe
    C:\Users\Jay\AppData\Local\Google\Chrome\Application\chrome.exe
    C:\Users\Jay\AppData\Local\Google\Chrome\Application\chrome.exe
    C:\Program Files (x86)\Trend Micro\HiJackThis\HiJackThis.exe

    R1 - HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Main,Search Page = http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=54896
    R0 - HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Main,Start Page = http://www.yahoo.com/?ilc=1
    R1 - HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Main,Default_Search_URL = http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=54896
    R1 - HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Main,Search Page = http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=54896
    R0 - HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Search,SearchAssistant =
    R0 - HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Search,CustomizeSearch =
    R0 - HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Main,Local Page = C:\Windows\SysWOW64\blank.htm
    R1 - HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Internet Settings,ProxyOverride = *.local
    R0 - HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Toolbar,LinksFolderName =
    R3 - URLSearchHook: Yahoo! Toolbar - {EF99BD32-C1FB-11D2-892F-0090271D4F88} - C:\Program Files (x86)\Yahoo!\Companion\Installs\cpn\yt.dll
    F2 - REG:system.ini: UserInit=userinit.exe
    O2 - BHO: &Yahoo! Toolbar Helper - {02478D38-C3F9-4efb-9B51-7695ECA05670} - C:\Program Files (x86)\Yahoo!\Companion\Installs\cpn\yt.dll
    O2 - BHO: HP Print Enhancer - {0347C33E-8762-4905-BF09-768834316C61} - C:\Program Files (x86)\HP\Digital Imaging\Smart Web Printing\hpswp_printenhancer.dll
    O2 - BHO: AcroIEHelperStub - {18DF081C-E8AD-4283-A596-FA578C2EBDC3} - C:\Program Files (x86)\Common Files\Adobe\Acrobat\ActiveX\AcroIEHelperShim.dll
    O2 - BHO: Spybot-S&D IE Protection - {53707962-6F74-2D53-2644-206D7942484F} - C:\Program Files (x86)\Spybot - Search & Destroy\SDHelper.dll
    O2 - BHO: Google Toolbar Helper - {AA58ED58-01DD-4d91-8333-CF10577473F7} - C:\Program Files (x86)\Google\Google Toolbar\GoogleToolbar_32.dll
    O2 - BHO: SkypeIEPluginBHO - {AE805869-2E5C-4ED4-8F7B-F1F7851A4497} - C:\Program Files (x86)\Skype\Toolbars\Internet Explorer\skypeieplugin.dll
    O2 - BHO: Google Toolbar Notifier BHO - {AF69DE43-7D58-4638-B6FA-CE66B5AD205D} - C:\Program Files (x86)\Google\GoogleToolbarNotifier\5.7.7227.1100\swg.dll
    O2 - BHO: Java(tm) Plug-In 2 SSV Helper - {DBC80044-A445-435b-BC74-9C25C1C588A9} - C:\Program Files (x86)\Java\jre6\bin\jp2ssv.dll
    O2 - BHO: SingleInstance Class - {FDAD4DA1-61A2-4FD8-9C17-86F7AC245081} - C:\Program Files (x86)\Yahoo!\Companion\Installs\cpn\YTSingleInstance.dll
    O2 - BHO: HP Smart BHO Class - {FFFFFFFF-CF4E-4F2B-BDC2-0E72E116A856} - C:\Program Files (x86)\HP\Digital Imaging\Smart Web Printing\hpswp_BHO.dll
    O3 - Toolbar: Yahoo! Toolbar - {EF99BD32-C1FB-11D2-892F-0090271D4F88} - C:\Program Files (x86)\Yahoo!\Companion\Installs\cpn\yt.dll
    O3 - Toolbar: Google Toolbar - {2318C2B1-4965-11d4-9B18-009027A5CD4F} - C:\Program Files (x86)\Google\Google Toolbar\GoogleToolbar_32.dll
    O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [ccApp] "C:\Program Files (x86)\Common Files\Symantec Shared\ccApp.exe"
    O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [ddoctorv2] "C:\Program Files (x86)\Comcast\Desktop Doctor\bin\sprtcmd.exe" /P ddoctorv2
    O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [APSDaemon] "C:\Program Files (x86)\Common Files\Apple\Apple Application Support\APSDaemon.exe"
    O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [QuickTime Task] "C:\Program Files (x86)\QuickTime\QTTask.exe" -atboottime
    O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [HP Software Update] C:\Program Files (x86)\HP\HP Software Update\HPWuSchd2.exe
    O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [iTunesHelper] "C:\Program Files (x86)\iTunes\iTunesHelper.exe"
    O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [Ad-Aware Browsing Protection] "C:\ProgramData\Ad-Aware Browsing Protection\adawarebp.exe"
    O4 - HKCU\..\Run: [SpybotSD TeaTimer] C:\Program Files (x86)\Spybot - Search & Destroy\TeaTimer.exe
    O4 - HKCU\..\Run: [msnmsgr] "C:\Program Files (x86)\Windows Live\Messenger\msnmsgr.exe" /background
    O4 - HKCU\..\Run: [Desktop Software] "C:\Program Files (x86)\Common Files\SupportSoft\bin\bcont.exe" /ini "C:\Program Files (x86)\ComcastUI\Desktop Software\uinstaller.ini" /fromrun /starthidden
    O4 - HKCU\..\Run: [swg] "C:\Program Files (x86)\Google\GoogleToolbarNotifier\GoogleToolbarNotifier.exe"
    O4 - HKCU\..\Run: [Google Update] "C:\Users\Jay\AppData\Local\Google\Update\GoogleUpdate.exe" /c
    O4 - HKUS\S-1-5-19\..\Run: [Sidebar] %ProgramFiles%\Windows Sidebar\Sidebar.exe /autoRun (User 'LOCAL SERVICE')
    O4 - HKUS\S-1-5-19\..\RunOnce: [mctadmin] C:\Windows\System32\mctadmin.exe (User 'LOCAL SERVICE')
    O4 - HKUS\S-1-5-20\..\Run: [Sidebar] %ProgramFiles%\Windows Sidebar\Sidebar.exe /autoRun (User 'NETWORK SERVICE')
    O4 - HKUS\S-1-5-20\..\RunOnce: [mctadmin] C:\Windows\System32\mctadmin.exe (User 'NETWORK SERVICE')
    O8 - Extra context menu item: E&xport to Microsoft Excel - res://C:\PROGRA~2\MIB0A5~1\OFFICE11\EXCEL.EXE/3000
    O9 - Extra button: Skype add-on for Internet Explorer - {898EA8C8-E7FF-479B-8935-AEC46303B9E5} - C:\Program Files (x86)\Skype\Toolbars\Internet Explorer\skypeieplugin.dll
    O9 - Extra 'Tools' menuitem: Skype add-on for Internet Explorer - {898EA8C8-E7FF-479B-8935-AEC46303B9E5} - C:\Program Files (x86)\Skype\Toolbars\Internet Explorer\skypeieplugin.dll
    O9 - Extra button: Research - {92780B25-18CC-41C8-B9BE-3C9C571A8263} - C:\PROGRA~2\MIB0A5~1\OFFICE11\REFIEBAR.DLL
    O9 - Extra button: Show or hide HP Smart Web Printing - {DDE87865-83C5-48c4-8357-2F5B1AA84522} - C:\Program Files (x86)\HP\Digital Imaging\Smart Web Printing\hpswp_BHO.dll
    O9 - Extra button: (no name) - {DFB852A3-47F8-48C4-A200-58CAB36FD2A2} - C:\Program Files (x86)\Spybot - Search & Destroy\SDHelper.dll
    O9 - Extra 'Tools' menuitem: Spybot - Search && Destroy Configuration - {DFB852A3-47F8-48C4-A200-58CAB36FD2A2} - C:\Program Files (x86)\Spybot - Search & Destroy\SDHelper.dll
    O16 - DPF: Garmin Communicator Plug-In - https://static.garmincdn.com/gcp/ie/3.0.1.0/GarminAxControl.CAB
    O16 - DPF: {73ECB3AA-4717-450C-A2AB-D00DAD9EE203} (GMNRev Class) - http://h20270.www2.hp.com/ediags/gmn2/install/HPProductDetection2.cab
    O16 - DPF: {E2883E8F-472F-4FB0-9522-AC9BF37916A7} - http://platformdl.adobe.com/NOS/getPlusPlus/1.6/gp.cab
    O18 - Protocol: skype-ie-addon-data - {91774881-D725-4E58-B298-07617B9B86A8} - C:\Program Files (x86)\Skype\Toolbars\Internet Explorer\skypeieplugin.dll
    O18 - Protocol: skype4com - {FFC8B962-9B40-4DFF-9458-1830C7DD7F5D} - C:\PROGRA~2\COMMON~1\Skype\SKYPE4~1.DLL
    O23 - Service: @%SystemRoot%\system32\Alg.exe,-112 (ALG) - Unknown owner - C:\windows\System32\alg.exe (file missing)
    O23 - Service: Apple Mobile Device - Apple Inc. - C:\Program Files (x86)\Common Files\Apple\Mobile Device Support\AppleMobileDeviceService.exe
    O23 - Service: Bonjour Service - Apple Inc. - C:\Program Files\Bonjour\mDNSResponder.exe
    O23 - Service: Symantec Event Manager (ccEvtMgr) - Symantec Corporation - C:\Program Files (x86)\Common Files\Symantec Shared\ccSvcHst.exe
    O23 - Service: Symantec Settings Manager (ccSetMgr) - Symantec Corporation - C:\Program Files (x86)\Common Files\Symantec Shared\ccSvcHst.exe
    O23 - Service: ConfigFree WiMAX Service (cfWiMAXService) - TOSHIBA CORPORATION - C:\Program Files (x86)\TOSHIBA\ConfigFree\CFIWmxSvcs64.exe
    O23 - Service: ConfigFree Gadget Service - TOSHIBA CORPORATION - C:\Program Files (x86)\TOSHIBA\ConfigFree\CFProcSRVC.exe
    O23 - Service: ConfigFree Service - TOSHIBA CORPORATION - C:\Program Files (x86)\TOSHIBA\ConfigFree\CFSvcs.exe
    O23 - Service: CT Device Query service (CTDevice_Srv) - Creative Technology Ltd - C:\Program Files (x86)\Creative\Shared Files\CTDevSrv.exe
    O23 - Service: Creative Centrale Media Server (CTUPnPSv) - Creative Technology Ltd - C:\Program Files (x86)\Creative\Creative Centrale\CTUPnPSv.exe
    O23 - Service: @%SystemRoot%\system32\efssvc.dll,-100 (EFS) - Unknown owner - C:\windows\System32\lsass.exe (file missing)
    O23 - Service: @%systemroot%\system32\fxsresm.dll,-118 (Fax) - Unknown owner - C:\windows\system32\fxssvc.exe (file missing)
    O23 - Service: GameConsoleService - WildTangent, Inc. - C:\Program Files (x86)\TOSHIBA Games\TOSHIBA Game Console\GameConsoleService.exe
    O23 - Service: Google Update Service (gupdate) (gupdate) - Google Inc. - C:\Program Files (x86)\Google\Update\GoogleUpdate.exe
    O23 - Service: Google Update Service (gupdatem) (gupdatem) - Google Inc. - C:\Program Files (x86)\Google\Update\GoogleUpdate.exe
    O23 - Service: Google Software Updater (gusvc) - Google - C:\Program Files (x86)\Google\Common\Google Updater\GoogleUpdaterService.exe
    O23 - Service: iPod Service - Apple Inc. - C:\Program Files\iPod\bin\iPodService.exe
    O23 - Service: @keyiso.dll,-100 (KeyIso) - Unknown owner - C:\windows\system32\lsass.exe (file missing)
    O23 - Service: LiveUpdate - Symantec Corporation - C:\PROGRA~2\Symantec\LIVEUP~1\LUCOMS~1.EXE
    O23 - Service: @comres.dll,-2797 (MSDTC) - Unknown owner - C:\windows\System32\msdtc.exe (file missing)
    O23 - Service: @%SystemRoot%\System32\netlogon.dll,-102 (Netlogon) - Unknown owner - C:\windows\system32\lsass.exe (file missing)
    O23 - Service: pcCMService - Alcatel-Lucent - C:\Program Files (x86)\Common Files\Motive\pcCMService.exe
    O23 - Service: pcCMService64 - Alcatel-Lucent - C:\Program Files\Common Files\Motive\pcCMService.exe
    O23 - Service: @%systemroot%\system32\psbase.dll,-300 (ProtectedStorage) - Unknown owner - C:\windows\system32\lsass.exe (file missing)
    O23 - Service: @%systemroot%\system32\Locator.exe,-2 (RpcLocator) - Unknown owner - C:\windows\system32\locator.exe (file missing)
    O23 - Service: @%SystemRoot%\system32\samsrv.dll,-1 (SamSs) - Unknown owner - C:\windows\system32\lsass.exe (file missing)
    O23 - Service: SBSD Security Center Service (SBSDWSCService) - Safer Networking Ltd. - C:\Program Files (x86)\Spybot - Search & Destroy\SDWinSec.exe
    O23 - Service: Symantec Management Client (SmcService) - Symantec Corporation - C:\Program Files (x86)\Symantec\Symantec Endpoint Protection\Smc.exe
    O23 - Service: @%SystemRoot%\system32\snmptrap.exe,-3 (SNMPTRAP) - Unknown owner - C:\windows\System32\snmptrap.exe (file missing)
    O23 - Service: @%systemroot%\system32\spoolsv.exe,-1 (Spooler) - Unknown owner - C:\windows\System32\spoolsv.exe (file missing)
    O23 - Service: @%SystemRoot%\system32\sppsvc.exe,-101 (sppsvc) - Unknown owner - C:\windows\system32\sppsvc.exe (file missing)
    O23 - Service: SupportSoft Sprocket Service (ddoctorv2) (sprtsvc_ddoctorv2) - SupportSoft, Inc. - C:\Program Files (x86)\Comcast\Desktop Doctor\bin\sprtsvc.exe
    O23 - Service: Symantec Endpoint Protection (Symantec AntiVirus) - Symantec Corporation - C:\Program Files (x86)\Symantec\Symantec Endpoint Protection\Rtvscan.exe
    O23 - Service: TMachInfo - TOSHIBA Corporation - C:\Program Files (x86)\TOSHIBA\TOSHIBA Service Station\TMachInfo.exe
    O23 - Service: TOSHIBA Optical Disc Drive Service (TODDSrv) - Unknown owner - C:\Windows\system32\TODDSrv.exe (file missing)
    O23 - Service: TOSHIBA Power Saver (TosCoSrv) - TOSHIBA Corporation - C:\Program Files\TOSHIBA\Power Saver\TosCoSrv.exe
    O23 - Service: TOSHIBA eco Utility Service - TOSHIBA Corporation - C:\Program Files\TOSHIBA\TECO\TecoService.exe
    O23 - Service: TOSHIBA HDD SSD Alert Service - TOSHIBA Corporation - C:\Program Files\TOSHIBA\TOSHIBA HDD SSD Alert\TosSmartSrv.exe
    O23 - Service: TPCH Service (TPCHSrv) - TOSHIBA Corporation - C:\Program Files\TOSHIBA\TPHM\TPCHSrv.exe
    O23 - Service: @%SystemRoot%\system32\ui0detect.exe,-101 (UI0Detect) - Unknown owner - C:\windows\system32\UI0Detect.exe (file missing)
    O23 - Service: @%SystemRoot%\system32\vaultsvc.dll,-1003 (VaultSvc) - Unknown owner - C:\windows\system32\lsass.exe (file missing)
    O23 - Service: @%SystemRoot%\system32\vds.exe,-100 (vds) - Unknown owner - C:\windows\System32\vds.exe (file missing)
    O23 - Service: @%systemroot%\system32\vssvc.exe,-102 (VSS) - Unknown owner - C:\windows\system32\vssvc.exe (file missing)
    O23 - Service: @%SystemRoot%\system32\Wat\WatUX.exe,-601 (WatAdminSvc) - Unknown owner - C:\windows\system32\Wat\WatAdminSvc.exe (file missing)
    O23 - Service: @%systemroot%\system32\wbengine.exe,-104 (wbengine) - Unknown owner - C:\windows\system32\wbengine.exe (file missing)
    O23 - Service: @%Systemroot%\system32\wbem\wmiapsrv.exe,-110 (wmiApSrv) - Unknown owner - C:\windows\system32\wbem\WmiApSrv.exe (file missing)
    O23 - Service: @%PROGRAMFILES%\Windows Media Player\wmpnetwk.exe,-101 (WMPNetworkSvc) - Unknown owner - C:\Program Files (x86)\Windows Media Player\wmpnetwk.exe (file missing)

    --
    End of file - 13462 bytes
     
  2. jayeliot

    jayeliot Thread Starter

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2003
    Messages:
    364
    I read another thread in Windows 7 forum where he too is experiencing shutdowns. The TechGuy suggested that this guy's cooling fan may be not working. I have since been monitoring my fan and it seems to be functioning well. It cycles on once every minute or two.It runs for about 10 seconds. It is quiet and heat comes out the side. I have been feeling around the laptop frequently and have not felt any heat buildup anywhere.
     
  3. marbski

    marbski

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2012
    Messages:
    220
    video card problem maybe...... try to go repair shop for check up..
     
  4. jayeliot

    jayeliot Thread Starter

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2003
    Messages:
    364
    Interesting. So I looked up video card overheating a laptop and sure enough it can turn it off. So I loaded something called Core Temp 1.0. Not that I understand this stuff, but here are the current readings : TJ Max 221 F ; 115 F.

    core # 0 113 F (Min) and 117 F (max) ; load 4 %
    same readings for core # 1 ; load 6 %

    This app also lets me enable overheat protection and I can set the parameters. Currently the default is 194 F. I did not enable this function.

    Not sure if this app creates a log of temps. It has something called a register dump which looks like a log but I cannot make heads or tails of this.

    Note : most of the people having this problem seem to be gamers. I do not do games at all.

    I would like to make sure that the laptop is overheating before taking it to a shop as I feel no hot spots and the fan works fine - is there an app that you can recommend that would monitor the temps ?
     
  5. jayeliot

    jayeliot Thread Starter

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2003
    Messages:
    364
    so I loaded another app call SpeedFan. I have been monitoring the temps. As the Temp1 gets to 126, the fan kicks in and the temp drops immediately to 117 and the fan shuts down. This has repeated itself all day today.

    Is it possible that the cause of my shutdowns is not due to excess heat ??
     
  6. jayeliot

    jayeliot Thread Starter

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2003
    Messages:
    364
    One more thing ...... these unexpected shutdowns alway occur when the laptop is asleep. There is no overheating when asleep, so maybe there is another problem that is being overlooked ?? Can someone respond, thanks
     
  7. johnebadbak

    johnebadbak

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2002
    Messages:
    1,703
  8. jayeliot

    jayeliot Thread Starter

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2003
    Messages:
    364
    So it has been two weeks and I still get the occasional shutdown. I have now noticed a pattern. Again, if it goes to sleep, that is when it may shut down...... never when I am it using it ; also - if I close the screen, but leave the laptop on, the laptop goes into sleep mode AND when I re-open the screen, on several occasions, the laptop never comes out of sleep mode. I actually had to remove the battery to force a reboot.

    Rather than a overheat problem, do I instead have a mechanical problem ?

    I have changed the power settings so that it never goes into sleep mode, and I stopped closing the screen. So far I have not had a shut down for 2 days.
     
  9. jayeliot

    jayeliot Thread Starter

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2003
    Messages:
    364
    Perhaps we should move this thread to a hardware forum. I appreciate the advice from johnebadbak and marbski, but there is no overheating problem here. This laptop is running 3 days now after I changed the power settings to Never Go to Sleep. As long as we do not close the cover / screen, this baby works just fine. It is waking from sleep mode that is the problem.
     
  10. jayeliot

    jayeliot Thread Starter

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2003
    Messages:
    364
    i am not overheating..... haven't had a problem since June 24 ever since I changed the power settings to "never go to sleep".
     
  11. jayeliot

    jayeliot Thread Starter

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2003
    Messages:
    364
    It can't be overheating as I am now one month without an unexpected shutdown as long as I keep the laptop awake .....So why what would cause my laptop to turn off if I fold down the screen or let it go to sleep mode ?
     
  12. jayeliot

    jayeliot Thread Starter

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2003
    Messages:
    364
    anyone ?
     
  13. zanonymousz

    zanonymousz

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2012
    Messages:
    14
    Do you always fold down the screen to go sleep mode? Or have you tried having it on sleep mode without the cover being closed down?
     
  14. jayeliot

    jayeliot Thread Starter

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2003
    Messages:
    364
    Actually, I encountered the problem weeks ago when the power setting was set for sleep after 20 minutes or so.i would come back and discovered it turned off, but not always. So I set it to never go to sleep. And the problem went away. But then one day, my wife closed the cover and I came back to find it off, not sleeping. So now we never close the cover, have the setting at 'never go to sleep' and the laptop is working just fine. ( Not over heating, which was suggested in the earlier posts by TechSupportGuys as a possible cause)

    So going into sleep mode means 'turn off' to my laptop (but not every time) .
     
  15. jayeliot

    jayeliot Thread Starter

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2003
    Messages:
    364
    so any ideas
     
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