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Discussion in 'Random Discussion' started by zergpc208, Jul 5, 2007.

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  1. zergpc208

    zergpc208 Thread Starter

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    I find it funny going to wikipedia saying the new F-22 and F-35 in the US they are still going to keep the F-15 , F-16,F-18 and all the other old fighter from the 70's.


    I will post the next day the other information wikipedia is saying.
     
  2. LANMaster

    LANMaster Banned

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    That's because the F-15 Eagle, F-16 Falcon, FA-18 Hornet are still far superior than 90+% of the other nations in the world.
    The F-14 Tomcat just got scrapped last year.

    The F-15 is a very long range heavy fighter/bomber whereas the F-16 is the most nimble tiny fighter there is. If you ever see one up close and next to an F-15, you'll see that about 3 F-16s can fit into the same space as one heavy F-15. The F-16 is about the most maneuverable stick & rudder platform ever invented.

    The FA-18 is a combination of both qualities with an incredible avionics boost. (and it's also somewhat stealthy ... Shhhhhh)

    :D
     
  3. zergpc208

    zergpc208 Thread Starter

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    Most of people who make fighters or any plane is in Europe or the US.And other countries just get fighters from them.

    China got most from the USSR when it could no longer put money into space or the army.This is NOT know it was going on for years even when USSR was there .

    I think now most countries get ex-soviet engineers to work on the fighters or train them . Well India, Pakistan ,Iran and Iraq must reverse engineer.

    Its all profit making and you make plane or fighter now and sell it .The concept of military superpower is out the window and profit of military equipment for sale is the thing now.
     
  4. Fidelista

    Fidelista

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    Zergpc, It is less a matter of superior aircraft than you may think--- the newer Russian aircraft are awesome--in all respects.
    Where the U.S. has the great advantage is not so much aircraft superiority -- but rather a superior Airforce /Naval air -- in both size/numbers --and training.
    The Russian actually have superior aircraft in service --esp in naval application.
    Are you familar with the Sukhoi SU-33 ? or that family of aircraft?. They are superior to anything that operates from deck of ship. Search the subject.
    Problem for them is numbers -- no cash . I believe they only field 25-30 of them on one carrier.
    Anything the U.S. builds in future for naval application must do several things .
    Beat the SU-33 in all ways-- speed --climb-- acceleration--weapons payload --range --manueverbilty --avionics -- ect. A big task. It all comes to numbers --performance--- and number of aircraft and crew available.
    The F-18 is not the answer -- its already behind the curve so to speak, and everybody involved with aircraft knows it.
    The U.S cannot afford to replace all combat aircraft with the new stealth aircraft{over 200 million per} --and its not a sure thing thing that it would be wise anyway. >f
     
  5. valis

    valis Moderator

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    well, my sister's hubby has been flying the 16 for about 18 years now, it's a pretty hot ride. But one number always sticks out at me when talking fighter aircraft:

    F-15: NEVER been shot down. Currently it's 100+ to nil. That's making a statement. And yes, fidelista, the emphasis is and always has been on training. My sis's hubby, after excelling at weapons school (USAF version of Top Gun, roughly) was pulled from active duty status and dumped in as a 'red' flyer and an instructor. The best of the best end up teaching; and no, he was NOT pleased with that. Made a comment about training his entire life for the Super Bowl and ending up coaching the damn thing. :)
     
  6. valis

    valis Moderator

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    another random stat: The fastest fighter that the US produced that went from active duty to mothball was the 117-A, the stealth fighter. Why? Because of the unbelievable success and ability of the Raptor. That plane will rewrite aviation as we know it, and the stuff that will come behind it (already built, I am sure) is bound to be eye-popping. All fun stuff.
     
  7. zergpc208

    zergpc208 Thread Starter

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    The stealth fighters are better because they are made of softer metal well none stealth the metal is very hard.

    You can't make airplane out of plastic or ships or boats out of plastic.The harder the metal the less stealth .
     
  8. valis

    valis Moderator

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    the f-117 is made from aluminum skin and titanium support around the engine and exhaust areas. Are you suggesting that aluminum is better for stealth as is doesn't reflect radar as well? If so, you may want to re-examine your facts. The b-2 uses a LOT of titanium in structural areas, with carbon composites making up the rest.

    Remember that most of the planes up to about 1970 or so all had aluminum skin; they had a huge radar signature.

    The entire premise of stealth is due to the defraction of radar by leading edges. Some Russain mathematician came up with the principle back in the 60's, that was what got the 117 started. Do some research on the Have Blue program for further reading.
     
  9. Fidelista

    Fidelista

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    Composites are just as good as "metal" if designed-- intended for strength.
    Stealth come mostly from shape ---which is a problem.
    The most stealthy designs are not the best --aerodynamically---that is a fact.
    This is one of problems that designers are trying to address.
    I would have to say that the F-22 is closest to making it work.
    Internal weapon bays -- weapons concealed , which is all important in a stealth aircraft , increases weight , and limits weapon payloads.
    The F-117 stealth fighter is really not a fighter at all --but a stealth bomber designed to deliver smart munitions.
    It has no gun , is extremely limited in manueverabilty--and is subsonic -- slow.
    In high G manuever --it has actually shed wings. This was not in combat --but in display that exceeded its purpose . It is not a fighter.
    This is not a problem for its specialized role, it performed with excellence as a night-time bomber.
    The big problems with stealth -- is the aerodynamic liability -- and weapons storage.
    That is the challange .
    The Russian has built one or two Migs -- Mig 1.44 {Raptor killer } that is somewhat stealthy --but extremely high performance--kind of a split the difference approach . I guess they could afford only two! :rolleyes:
    Also , stealth is not always stealthy --depending on who you are dealing with.
    Flying a stealth aircraft over London or Moscow --is a bit different than flying over Baghdad!.
     
  10. Fidelista

    Fidelista

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    I have posted the problems U.S. naval has -- ie the F-18.:(
    This is a secret replacement --the X-wing fighter !!!!!!!;) :D >f
     
  11. RSM123

    RSM123

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    Why would internal weapon bays increase weight ? Surely 4 x 500 pound bombs would weigh the same whether stored internally or externally, as would the pylons from which they were slung.

    The advantages of internal seem to me to be firstly to reduce the radio sig of the plane, and to reduce drag ... increasing speed and fuel performance - even if only by a matter of a few per cent.
     
  12. valis

    valis Moderator

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    you have to have engines to open the bays and then lower the racks. Those add the weight.

    *edit* motors, rather. I think.
     
  13. RSM123

    RSM123

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    I thought that could be done with compressed air / hydraulically ? Certainly such a system would be necessary in the event any electrical system malfunctioned - not a big problem on a WW2 Thousand bomber raid if it were one a/c ... but if it were a two ship strike to hit a bridge or other critical target, that would be a fatal omission.
     
  14. valis

    valis Moderator

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    There's an old saw going around that when Kelly Johnson of Skunk Works fame was presented with the radar cross section of the original Have Blue (it's about that of a bumblebee, believe it or not), he asked his engineers if that was an accurate reading. They replied yes. He asked how it flew. They said that was a minor problem, in that it couldn't, as it was so aerodynamically unsound. To which he responded, "Well, I guess we'll have to teach it to fly."

    :)
     
  15. valis

    valis Moderator

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    it certainly could be done hydraulically, but you still need the engine to power the hydraulics, and those aren't light. Neither are the hydraulics, for that matter......it's a double edged sword, sacrificing weaponry for stealth....but the f-22 is going to be one whale of a plane.....don't think there's anything even close that can give it a run for it's money around (yet).
     
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