US Delta Force Attacked by Taliban

DNeurococo

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Just found this out on the "Drudge" site==>

MAG: 12 U.S. DELTA MEMBERS WOUNDED ON RAID OF OMAR'S COMPLEX, THREE SERIOUSLY; PENTAGON RETHINKS 'SPECIAL FORCES OPERATIONS'

Seymour Hersh has filed yet another controversial report for coming editons of the NEW YORKER, publishing sources tell the DRUDGE REPORT.

In ESCAPE AND EVASION, Hersh claims: In the wake of a near-disaster during the assault on Mullah Omar's complex during the early morning of October 20th, the Pentagon has been rethinking future Special Forces operations inside Afghanistan.

MORE

Delta Force, which prides itself on stealth, had been counterattacked by the Taliban, and some of the Americans had had to fight their way to safety. Hersh has filed his report for the November 12, 2001 issue of the NEW YORKER, on sale Monday.

Twelve Delta members were wounded, three of them seriously.

The intensity and ferocity of the Taliban response "scared the crap out of everyone," a senior military officer tells Hersh.

The Delta team stormed Mullah Omar's complex, but found little of value, Hersh reports, and then, "as they came out of the house, the **** hit the fan," one senior officer says. "It was like an ambush. The Taliban were fighting with light arms and either [rocket-propelled grenades] or mortars." The team immediately began taking casualties and evacuated.

"The Delta team was forced to abandon one of its objectives: the insertion of an undercover team into the area and the stay-behind soldiers fled to a previously determined rendezvous point, using a contingency plan known as an E. & E., for escape and evasion," Hersh writes.

MORE

One Delta Force soldier told a colleague that military planners "think we can perform ****ing magic. We can't. Don't put us in an environment we weren't prepared for. Next time, we're going to lose a company."

One military man reports that Delta Force officers were "still outraged" last week as after-action arguments over how best to wage a ground war continued.

The Pentagon could not give details of what really happened near Kandahar "because it doesn't want to appear that it doesn't know what it's doing." Another senior officer says, "I don't know where the adult supervision for these operations is. Franks -- the general in charge of the U.S. Central Command -- is clueless."

Speaking of Delta Force the officer adds, "These guys have had a case of the *** since Mogadishu. They want to do it right and they train hard. Don't put them on something stupid. We'll get there, but it's going to get ugly."

Officers also criticized the Army Rangers' sameday parachute jump into a Taliban-controlled airbase because "it was a television show. The Rangers were not the first in -- an Army Pathfinder team had already confirmed that the area was clear of Taliban forces."

One senior official Hersh spoke to acknowledged that there were serious problems in the war effort thus far, but said, "It's like reading a six-hundred-page murder mystery. It's solved on the last few pages, but you have to read five hundred and ninety-eight pages to get there."
 
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Originally posted by DNeurococo
Just found this out on the "Drudge" site==>

Officers also criticized the Army Rangers' sameday parachute jump into a Taliban-controlled airbase because "it was a television show. The Rangers were not the first in -- an Army Pathfinder team had already confirmed that the area was clear of Taliban forces."

Pathfinders are ~always~ the first into a DZ-very quietly. Most times, the enemy never knows they are in place.

Yeah,and you're right: we civilians got same day infra-red shots of the jump!
 
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DN...Did you read Hersh's last weeks article? Was very good!
If you want it

Kerrey remains angry about the U.S. policy toward Afghanistan in the years after its defeat of the Soviet Union. "The Cold War was over, and we shut down Afghanistan"—that is, ceased all intelligence operations. "From Bush to Clinton, what happened is one of the most embarrassing American foreign-policy decisions, as bad as Vietnam," Kerrey said. He cited a botched 1996 C.I.A. plot to overthrow President Saddam Hussein of Iraq: "We also had a half-baked Iraqi operation and sent a signal that we're not serious."
 
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It drives me nuts when the public is shown clips of troops in action and you know the only reason that happens is when the polls are down.It is simply a P.R. move that drives the ratings up and makes people feel like that administration is doing something.
I would rather Defense Secretary Rumsfield kept to his line of "I will not speak of ongoing operations as not to comprise the lives of the troops on the ground."
There are something that should not be shown to the public at the expense of the lives who give everything to protect this country.
Cadaver Queen
 

DNeurococo

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Kirkland - Don't try to tell a "jar head" like GB that Army "Pathfinders" are there before the USMC!

JewisHeritage - No, I hadn't read the Hersh article you listed. I downloaded it, and will read it later. Thanks for listing it. I heard that the Pentagon is denying Hersh's article about the Delta Force. My experience has been that Hersh is usually right, despite denials from the government. In fact, I don't start to believe anything until it is officially denied! :)

I was also struck by the similarities to Viet Nam. (I was going to put this in the "Wahhabism" thread, but since it came up here. . .)
You have an enemy that is difficult to define, and blends in with innocent citizens. When innocent citizens are killed by bombing, it stirs up criticism around the world. We seem reluctant to use full force for fear of bringing 1.5 billion Muslims into the fight, just like we were afraid of bringing in China or Russia during VN. And lastly, we have "allies" (Pakistan, Northern Alliance, Saudi Arabia) who are constantly screwing us, refusing to co-operate, etc. just like South Vietnam did! It makes me very nervous!

Cad-Q: Didn't want you to feel ignored. I just didn't have anything to add to what you wrote!
 
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DN,
I am not feeling slighted in the least. :)..Short side note,take a look at Forbes.com for 11/02/01 for the article about 5 Generic Drugs used during scare..
Cadaver Queen
 

DNeurococo

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Geoffry - Thanks again for your post on the Seymour Hersh article. I was surprised by the tone of his article, which seemed to advocate a "tougher" CIA (although he put the words in the mouths of others). I usually agree with Hersh, but this time I think he is wrong. It's true that the CIA needs to change, but not along the lines that Hersh seems to indicate.

To begin with, I don't believe the notion that the CIA is "handcuffed" by regulations. According to a letter written to the Wall St. Journal by John Deutch (former director of the CIA), the main restriction was that field officers were required to get approval from headquarters before developing a source. Approval was given nearly all of the time. According to Deutch, "CIA maintains that these guidelines have never prevented the recruitment of a valuable source". The CIA hardly has a problem with being "too nice".

I think the problem is rather with the sense of contempt that CIA agents seem to feel for the people they are supposed to be learning about. I recently saw a TV interview with several CIA agents. They were asked if they understood the language of the country they were stationed in. Not a single one did. To top it off, they were all laughing about this. If I was in charge of things, all of those Bozos who were laughing and bragging about their ignorance on TV would be laughing their way to the unemployment line the very next day.

I've heard representatives of the CIA complain about not being able to foresee a POPULAR revolution. Now the word "popular" means that almost everybody is in on it, or at least knows about it. Contrary to the James Bond novels, most intelligence is picked up simply by listening to what is going on and reading the local newspapers. (Like the old joke in "Dr. Strangelove": the Russian Ambassador complains of a U.S. "doomsday" device - - he says "our source is the New York Times!"). But as funny as it sounds, that IS where most valid information comes from - - just being aware of what is commonly available. But to do that, you have to drop your "ugly American" attitude and actually get down off your high horse and get into the streets with the unwashed masses. But that is beyond the grasp of agents who sit in U.S. run hotels, read U.S. newspapers, and only talk to people who speak English.

While I'm venting on the subject, I'd like to add that the same goes for "journalists", who follow the same modus operandi: U.S. Hotels, newspapers, and English speaking people. I remember seeing a "report" from a woman "journalist" who was looking out her hotel window at flashes of light in the sky and guessing at what was going on!

It should be obvious that the notion of getting "tougher" usually comes back to bite you (commonly referred to as "blowback"). The tough Reagan - Brzezinski tactic of bedeviling the Russians by supplying the Afghans with "stinger" missiles has had consequences that are all too apparent now. Likewise with funding and training that was given to bin Laden and the Taliban. Or the tough policies in Iran - which gave birth to the Ayatollah Khomeini. But we STILL hear that the CIA needs MORE dealings with unsavory characters. Like the old saying goes, "if you lie down with dogs, you wake up with fleas". They would do better to remember what the "I" in "CIA" stands for and take a more intelligent approach. They need to understand the people they are dealing with. Understanding the language would be a nice first step.
 
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DN: Sorry for the delay in responding.....The fact of the matter is that we have no intelligence ...We are using the Pakistanians, that we screwed already ten years ago as our "go to" points...Even Rumsfeld agreed to this on National TV...went further to say that there is a limit as to what you can gather from 40,000 feet....

As to the Delta Force Mess...Hersh's Article




In the days that followed, as details of the raids filtered through the military system, the Pentagon gave no public hint of the bitter internal debate they had provoked. There was evidence, however, that something had gone wrong. On Sunday, October 21st, the day after the raids, the London Sunday Telegraph reported that the United States had requested the immediate assignment to Afghanistan of the entire regiment of Britain's élite commando units, the Special Air Service, or S.A.S. American officials told me that British military authorities assigned to CENTCOM were urging the Pentagon to forgo its airborne operations inside Afghanistan and, instead, bring the war to the Taliban by establishing a large firebase in Afghanistan. The British position, one officer explained, was "We should tell the Taliban, 'We're now part of your grid square' "—that is, in the Taliban's territory. " 'What are you going to do about it?'
Thank you UK!

At least someone is using their brain....

The "good" that has transpired is that US troops are now on the ground and showing the Northern Alliance how to do small things like "march"!

Taking Taliban strongholds is a plus....Trying to insert a "stable government" in Kabul....that is a tough issue....Are we again taking a step over a line we shouldn't be walking?
 

DNeurococo

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Geoff - Thanks for your reply. Don't worry about delays. I realize you have other things to deal with in your life!

I would just add to your remarks that we should be aware of ALL of the consequences. For example, people are happy about the Northern Alliance (henceforth "N.A.") taking Kabul. Well, they were specifically asked by the U.S. NOT to take Kabul. It is thought that the N.A. taking Kabul will create a backlash in the South among elements that might support us, and make the people there MORE determined to fight against us.

As I've mentioned before, having the N.A. in charge is not much of an improvement over the Taliban.

P.S. I am a bit surprised that the media hasn't delt more with the Hersh thing. The military denies serious injuries, saying they amount to broken fingers and such that resulted from accidents rather than being inflicted by enemy action. I'm skeptical.
 
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JH siad:

DN: Sorry for the delay in responding.....The fact of the matter is that we have no intelligence
JH, this may surprise you, but I'm going to agree with you 100 percent on that one :)
 
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Geez MAC...You would think by now that I know "Sarge" is the only person in the universe with "intelligence"...& when he speaks....only he listens!

Mulder, is your favorite song, "My Way"? { the veg goes here }
 

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