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Win98SE will not restart from shutdown screen

Discussion in 'Earlier Versions of Windows' started by ozegirl, Apr 14, 2004.

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  1. ozegirl

    ozegirl Thread Starter

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    The system:

    Zeos computer.
    Phoenix Bios 4.04, Pantera 453-0030-04
    Build date: 01/26/95

    Pentium Step B5 90 MHz
    40MB RAM installed

    VERY OLD COMPUTER!

    The history:

    Given to me with Win95 installed. Everything working. Included lots of extras (for that era!) voice/fax modem, network card, sound card with midi + synthesizer capability, 2 fdd drives, 2 parallel ports, 3 serial ports inc one for internal modem....

    I ran fdisk and reformatted the drive fresh.
    I installed Win98SE.

    During the installation when the setup program calls for the computer to restart, it would not restart other than by manually pushing the button.
    After everything installed, would hang on shutdown and restart.

    I eventually resolved the shutdown issue as a conflict between the network card and sound card (computer would shut down if network card disabled). I decided sound was less important and removed the sound card from device manager (ie sound card still physically installed).

    Current situation:
    Computer will shutdown normally.
    Computer will shutdown and restart in DOS if this is selected from shutdown screen. Dos opens in C:\Windows. From there typing "exit" will restart windows.
    From the shutdown screen, if "restart" is selected, computer will shutdown to "Computer is shutting down" screen and will hang indefinitely. The same thing happens if installing a program and it prompts to restart windows. If computer is manually restarted with reset button scandisk does not run & there are no errors.

    I have done all the usual troubleshooting measures including the 17-step or whatever URL that is frequently recommended here.

    There is nothing in config.sys or autoexec.bat so nothing which can cause a problem there. I looked at the old config.sys and autoexec.bat (I saved all the stuff from the Win95 installation) & there was stuff in there for configuring the soundcard and setting date & time & setting MSCDEX for using the CDROM in DOS (which I don't), so I couldn't see anything required there.
    In Autoexec.bat there were some SET= strings which may or may not be required..eg
    SET TMP= C:\TEMP and
    SET PATH= C:\WINDOWS; C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND; C:\DOS

    To me, it's as if the computer goes through the shutdown process 100% but then just doesn't know where to go look to restart. Do I need something in autoexec.bat for this? Otherwise how does the computer get the message to restart? Could I have a file missing that is required to restart the computer?
    I ran system file checker & it was all OK.

    I will just add finally that some of the hardware had to have the 95 drivers installed because there were no 98 updates.

    Thanks for any ideas.
     
  2. ozegirl

    ozegirl Thread Starter

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    When I select CTR-ALT-DEL I get the end program screen, but when I hit the combo again in order to restart the computer it freezes. So whether I try to restart from here, or from shutdown, or after applying changes that require a restart via dialogue box or during program installation when it should auto-restart at some stages, the computer does not restart. However it does shutdown successfully.

    When I first installed Windows, the setup wasn't 100% successful (some things didn't install correctly for some reason), and I tried reinstalling again straight over the top. Second installation was all OK except for the failure of a soft restart.

    Does anyone know the file(s) and/or registry key values associated with restarting a computer? I suspect that there might be an error somewhere there if only I knew where to look. I could compare values/files with ones on my other Win98 computer if I know which ones to check.
     
  3. Rollin' Rog

    Rollin' Rog

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    It's kinda hard to help when you say you have done "all" the "17" steps, because that pretty much covers the book. Does that include installing the Win98 SE Shutdown supplement?

    And have you tried physically removing the sound card? There may be a number of separate device manager entries for it; for example if it is a SoundBlaster card you will see one for the DOS Emulation device, this often takes up an IRQ that causes conflicts.

    Also some network cards will cause this problem and others will not; so you should try physically removing yours to test.

    There is no particular registry key, but there is one that involves "fast restart"; I believe the shutdown supplement changes this, but you can check.

    It is covered here under the "fast reboot" note:

    http://www.billssite.com/shutdown.htm

    or:

    http://support.microsoft.com/?scid=kb;en-us;238096
     
  4. ozegirl

    ozegirl Thread Starter

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    Thanks for the reply.

    Yes I installed the supplement as well.
    I had seen the microsoft site link before. I'm at the stage where I've tried things I feel comfortable about (as well as some I didn't) - and I now have the computer shutting down - after putting device=c:\windows\himem.sys into config.sys. (Found that in one of the 17 steps)
    However restart remains a problem. I'm a bit worried about fiddling around with things in case I cause it to hang on shutdown again (this happened once or twice already & had to go through more fiddling to get it back to shutting down).
    I inherited this computer, so I'm not sure what all the specs are - didn't get all the documentation with it.
    However, I'm pretty sure that something is on an ISA card & that's probably part of the problem.
    I suspect that the BIOS is way out-of-date because a lot of the things that are suggested to alter in BIOS aren't even available. I looked about a BIOS flash but I had difficulty identifying the correct one and even for the ones that were available there was a warning that if BIOS was flashed incorrectly that replacement CMOS chips were no longer available. So I decided not to go down that path.
    Some of the things that I'm not sure about are:
    In BIOS, there is an option to enable/disable Plug and Play. When I got the computer, this was disabled, and I think probably for a good reason - I think it was probably to stop Windows trying to assign IRQ's as with the legacy devices present these claimed their own and windows didn’t recognise them as taken, and would therefore consider these IRQ's free and assign them to other things – causing conflict.
    This is something I read about & I notice that although in Control Panel/Multimedia/Devices when I had the sound card enabled, it reported IRQ's 5 and 11 as being used. However in the Windows IRQ table these are shown as free. Also, the LPT1 is assigned IRQ7 in the BIOS but in Windows IRQ table, 7 shows as free.
    There is nothing in the BIOS about IRQ steering - I suspect it is not compliant. When I go into Device manager - PCI bus - the check box is selected for IRQ steering, with the 3 default tables checked. However the status below reports IRQ as being disabled, and IRQ routing table not found.
    Despite this, in the Windows IRQ table, there is IRQ steering on IRQ9, along with the network card. The significance of all this is a bit lost on me.
    I tried checking the IRQ box to disable IRQ steering. I'm wondering - if I remove the network card (software wise in device manager) will this kick the IRQ steering off 9 as well as the network card & will I then be able to reset it to perhaps 10?
    I think this could be the cause of the problem. Also perhaps the IRQ is set on the jumpers but this again is something I feel is getting out of my depth.
    At least I have the network card working, and I don't want to reset it to another IRQ, have it not work, and then perhaps not be able to get it back again to where it was.
    Currently, if I try to reset the IRQ in device manager, it won't allow me.
    I also read about in Device Manager/Computer going into Reserve Resources to set IRQs that windows could not assign.
    What if I was to reserve IRQ9 here? Would that kick the network card off 9?
    The other thing I have to confess is that when I first installed windows there were many items in device manager with exclamation marks – the sound card is Turtle Beach Monte Carlo and it has a Sound Blaster Mode and a Windows Emulation mode or such like. I removed the entries with the exclamation marks and what I did was use Add Hardware to install just the drivers for the sound card (Windows didn’t find the sound card, I had to pick it myself). I had saved everything from the hard drive before I flushed Win95 so when I had to use “Have Disk” I just pointed it to my saved driver file.
    Doing this, I got the sound card to work, but had shutting down problems. Since I don’t really need sound, I removed the sound card from device manager.
    Likewise, with the Diamond Stealth 64 card, I used Windows to install the driver. Both the sound card and the display adapter come with sets of disks (which I don’t have) which are used to install them – because I think not only are there drivers to install but there are special configuration utilities included in the setup program.
    I have copies of the setup programs on the copy of the hard drive which I saved. I suspect that these include real-mode drivers. Again, this is getting into an area I am not expert in, and since I have a system which is “working”, I’m worried about trying something & making it worse.

    If anyone can help with clarification of some of the above issues I might have more confidence to try something.
     
  5. Rollin' Rog

    Rollin' Rog

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    Well I'm not a hardware expert and generally leave these questions to the folks on the hardware forum. Generally when it comes to getting different IRQs assigned the task is to try slot switching. Some BIOS' will allow you to reserve IRQs and there may be an option to switch between letting the BIOS or the OS assign IRQs. This is configured through the Pnp=OS setting if it is there. Setting it to 'yes' let's Windows assign IRQs, setting it to 'no' forces the BIOS assigned configuration

    I would make sure any "windows emulation" devices in the Device manager are disabled. This sounds like the Sound Blaster DOS emulation device which causes so many problems.

    And if there is an ISA card there, why not just remove it? What is it being used for?
     
  6. ozegirl

    ozegirl Thread Starter

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    Thanks for coming back, especially after such a long post!

    There's nothing in BIOS to reserve a particular IRQ - though some devices have options for the IRQs they use, if that's what you mean. However this is limited to 2 COM ports, LPT1, and audio, I think. The COM ports and the LPT1 are assigned "normal" values, and the audio had been disabled - I'm guessing it had been set as disabled because when I looked at the 4 other options given, none of the DMA/IRQ settings matched what the card is meant to use.
    The BIOS was set to "No Pnp operating system" by default. I tried both yes and no for this - didn't seem to make a difference.
    I don't think either the BIOS or windows is making a good job of assigning the IRQs. In fact I was amazed that the sound card worked at all.
    I did remove the sound blaster.
    I think I might need to open the machine up & take a look - even though I'm not an expert I might be able to notice something.
    At the moment I'm prepared to live with switching the computer off to restart.
    I just don't get why it will shutdown, or switch to DOS mode, but not restart windows which I would have thought was the easiest of the 3 options! Most people seem to have problems shutting down, not restarting.

    I've read a fair bit about BIOS and PNP OS assigning IRQ's and IRQ stuff generally, but it's not 100% crystal clear. Does anyone know of any really good, basic from the bottom up, sites on understanding IRQ assignments?
     
  7. WhitPhil

    WhitPhil Gone but never forgotten Trusted Advisor

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    Something to try (I didn't see it noted), which may give someone a clue...

    If you boot to Safe Mode, can you do a Restart to Windows?
     
  8. ozegirl

    ozegirl Thread Starter

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    No, it does not. It will shutdown only.

    I think it is something going on at the BIOS level.

    Even when I had formatted the drive and went through the setup program for windows, it hung on every restart - you know how you have to keep restarting your computer during the installation?
     
  9. ozegirl

    ozegirl Thread Starter

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    One other thing I forgot to mention:

    Under sysinfo - components - problem devices

    I get an entry for Secondary IDE Controller (single fifo)
    It says the hardware is disabled.

    These are the controllers present:
    PC Tech PCI IDE Single or Dual Port controller
    Primary IDE Controller (single fifo)
    Standard IDE/ESDI Hard Disk Controller

    Could this have anything to do with it?
    I looked under Add Hardware to see if I could find how to add one, but I wasn't sure which of those presented to choose as none of them were described exactly as "Secondary IDE Controller (single fifo)
     
  10. Rollin' Rog

    Rollin' Rog

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    Frankly most of the stuff I've seen about assigning IRQs in the BIOS isn't very helpful, in part because this varies so much from motherboard to motherboard and BIOS to BIOS.

    One thing you CAN do in almost every case I've seen is set the serial comm ports to disabled. This frees up two IRQs. When you do it, you will likely see, on reboot, a message or two indicating Windows is redetecting devices. If you check your IRQs after that you may see some re-assignments and perhaps a free IRQ or two.

    For what it's worth here are a few links out of my bookmarks on IRQ assignments:

    http://members.bellatlantic.net/~mrscary/devenum.htm
    http://avenir.dhs.org/articles/hardware/irq.html
    http://www.computercraft.com/docs/irqs.shtml

    Also possibly of interest as it involves a Win98 restart issue associated with Sound Blaster cards:

    http://www.anandtech.com/guides/viewfaq.html?i=2

    Regarding your question about the Secondary IDE; this is rather odd, do you have it disabled in the Device Manager?

    It would only affect a device on the secondary IDE, such as a CD-ROM if it were configured there.
     
  11. ozegirl

    ozegirl Thread Starter

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    Thanks again - will look at those a bit later.
    Another thing is that when my computer boots up, I get the first POST screen telling me about the Video card, the BIOS version, details of the processor, etc, then I get the Windows splash screen. On most other computers following this you return to a black screen with further info about PNP devices, IRQ assigments, details perhaps of the hard drive, etc and any ISA devices - also when you update your system you get 2 lines

    "Setup is Configuring your files"

    "This may take some minutes..please wait"

    or words to that effect.

    None of this ever happens. I just go straight to the splash screen and then into windows.
     
  12. ozegirl

    ozegirl Thread Starter

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    Sorry - just saw your last bit about the Secondary IDE.
    No it's not disabled in Device manager. It just isn't there.
    Getting Windows to search for one doesn't find it either.
     
  13. Rollin' Rog

    Rollin' Rog

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    I don't know what to tell you about the IDE question, you might want to try a post in Hardware and see if anyone is familiar with that issue.

    But concerning the boot up info, yes this does vary according to the BIOS maker and version. The screen you refer to passes pretty quickly when it is there, and you need to hit the pause key usually to read it.

    As for the "windows" message about setup, this varies according to the type of installer used. You don't always see it. The message is displayed when Windows is executing a wininit.ini file created during the install. After the install is complete the wininit.ini file is renamed to wininit.bak. You can open this in notepad to see what was done.

    I don't think the message would be hidden behind the splash screen, but you can hit the esc key to see what is happening.

    By the way, for what it's worth you can find a PDF description of the BIOS features here:

    http://search.phoenix.com/cgi-bin/m...sEN.msk&AND_ON=N&EN=X&query=phoenix+bios+4.04
     
  14. ozegirl

    ozegirl Thread Starter

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    Thanks again so much for all your help.
    I'll look into all your suggestions when I have more time.
    If/when I resolve the issue I will post back here.
     
  15. ozegirl

    ozegirl Thread Starter

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    Just a note that I have reposted this particular problem to the hardware forum under "PNP BIOS? - IRQ conflict? - restart problems
     
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