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zebragoose

Jacob
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I've searched for solutions to this problem as best I could, but didn't find anything exactly like what I'm experiencing, so thanks in advance for your patience with the newbie if I've missed something that covers this. I include bold not to be annoying, but to hopefully make this more scannable since I err on the side of a high level of detail. Thank you again!!!

I have a machine I built nearly two years ago that will not boot following upgrading the Motherboard utility update software (MSI Live Update 5 to MSI Live Update 6). I'm not sure if that's really the correct terminology. More details below, but system specs first

Processor: Intel i7 4770K 3.5 GHz
Motherboard: MSI z87-G43
RAM: 16 GB (2 x Patriot 8 GB 1600 MHz)
Video Card: MSI R7950 Twin Frozr 3GD5
OS: Windows 7 Ultimate, SP 1

As background, I had been having trouble attempting to get USB 3 to function properly on my machine and over the past several months, had tried update drivers using the MSI Live Update software provided with the motherboard, but USB 3 wasn't critical to my day to day use, so I just let it go when no updates for drivers could be found with that software (this was live update 5). I was curious why the LiveUpdate 5 software seemed to have not been updated for a long time, but figured if it ain't broke... Then, the most recent Windows Update was installed (3/8 or 3/9), and following that, it seems that that knocked down some barrier that was preventing MSI Live Update from accurately checking drivers and updates to that software. The first thing that was recommended by MSI Live Update 5 was that I upgrade to MSI live update 6, so I did that successfully.

Side Note: I found this thread talking about a guy who tried to flash his bios using MSI Live Update and had problems, but this isn't what I did, so I'm not sure if this pertains. All the same: https://www.reddit.com/r/buildapc/comments/1rgrx4/warning_to_those_using_msi_motherboards_do_not/

Upon running live update 6, I was confronted with a list of at least 6 items that reported as being pretty far out of date (some said existing version 2014). Sadly, I do not have a screen capture of that list of updates. I should have done this in retrospect. Since I have had problems with driver updates on previous Windows machines, I decided to tackle the recommended downloads / updates one at a time, beginning with the USB 3 driver update since that was the one big thing I noticed. I downloaded and installed the recommended USB 3 line item from the list and the system prompted me to restart.

Upon that and all subsequent restart(s), I receive a blue screen (image01BSOD.jpg, attached). I AM able to enter safe mode by holding F8, and enter the BIOS by using the F11 key. In safe mode, the system boots and I am able to view all my files, leading me to believe that it is simply a driver problem.

Things I have tried:

System Repair (I don't recall if this is the exact term MS uses, but it's the automatic repair option Windows recommends if I simply don't press anything on boot up). After one blue screen my system goes here. I've tried allowing this to complete several times, but it yields a message saying it can't find the problem and I should try system restore (image02WindowsError) . So, I tried...

System Restore. I have five options for previous states to restore to, which I thought would do it, but to no avail. Each state restore seems to run to completion successfully, but then the system restarts and I am left with the same blue screen with the same error message.

I was fairly firmly convinced that it was a problem with the USB 3 drivers, since that was the only element I installed/changed between system reboots, so I started the system in Safe Mode and disabled the USB 3 bus controller driver. Same BSOD and error message.

Next I did some searching about this issue and found something that recommended uninstalling the relevant USB 3 drivers. I think this may have been a mistake, but I did indeed do that in Safe Mode, but still no solution.

I know a little bit about computers, but am certainly no expert (I had someone walk me through building my existing system), and have little experience messing with BIOS settings. I found a few pages that indicated I might be able to use a flash drive to load some set of default or safe BIOS settings that would allow me to boot my machine, but to make sure I know exactly what I'm doing because I could ruin my machine if I do this incorrectly, which scared me off without having a very explicit set of instructions on how to perform that. Perhaps this is as easy as that? I'm thinking that, for now, I will use safe mode to save any vital data, list of installed programs, and I've saved my current BIOS settings onto a flash drive. My main concern is that if I were to boot from a flash drive I would like to avoid messing up any of my existing data or settings.

I have contacted MSI describing this issue and they said to mail them back the motherboard since they think it's a hardware problem, but it just doesn't seem like that is what happened and that this is probably a driver conflict issue. Again, I'm no expert, but could an update like that ever damage the hardware functioning of the MB? I certainly wouldn't think so.

Thanks for any assistance the community can provide on this issue, and apologies for the very long message.

Secondary issue / appeal for advice to satisfy my curiosity regarding the origin of this problem:

I'm also seeking advice in regards to whether people think this sounds like a hardware problem. As I said, I'm no expert, but it would be a huge coincidence that immediately after the USB 3 driver change and switch to MSI Live Update 6. In fact, I even suspected this would happen after enacting updates that were so far delayed for some reason. I had long suspected that something was wrong with my system preventing Live Update from scanning properly. It seems that whatever windows update changed allowed that program to finally run properly, and so lots of really old updates that should have been happening over a long period of time were recommended all at once. It also occurs to me that instead of selecting one item at a time to try to be safe in installing the recommended updates may have been a mistake, as perhaps one update would have affected the other (like if there was a USB general update, and a USB 3 update, perhaps I installed the USB update before installing another update it relied upon to run properly. I hope that makes sense. I guess what I mean is that if there is an update from 2014 that the system is presuming you have installed, then you try to install only an update from 2016 it could confuse the system to the extent that I'm experiencing now).

Images:
Image01BSOD.jpg

Image02WindowsError.jpg
 

Macboatmaster

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1. Welcome to Tech Support Guy

2. I do not think it is the cause of the problem but when running LiveUpdate 6 MSI recommend Antivirus is turned off - did you please and What is Antivirus please

3. I suspect on first examination it is as you say an update and I suspect it is graphics
That motherboard comes with integrated graphics in your Intel processor

Onboard

Graphics
1x VGA port, supporting a maximum resolution of 1920x1200 @ 60Hz

1x HDMI® port, supporting a maximum resolution of
[email protected], 24bpp/
[email protected], 24bpp/
[email protected], 36bpp

1x DVI-D port, supporting a maximum resolution of 1920x1200 @ 60Hz

4. S0 your Intel i7 has
Processor Graphics ‡ Intel® HD Graphics 4600
connect to those on the I/O plate and set primary graphics in BIOS

Integrated Graphics Configuration

Adjusts integrated graphics settings for optimum system. Press <Enter> to enter the sub-menu.
Initiate Graphic Adapter [PEG]
Selects a graphics device as the primary boot device.
[IGD] Integrated Graphics Display.
[PEG] PCI-Express Graphics Device.

Integrated Graphics Share Memory [64M]
Selects a fixed amount of system memory allocated to the onboard graphics. This item defines the exact memory size shared to the onboard graphics. [Options: 32M, 64M, 128M, 256M]

DVMT Memory [256MB]
DVMT memory can dynamically allocate system memory for running graphics intensive applications, such as 2D/3D games. [Options: 128MB, 256MB, Maximum]

5. Disconnect internal graphics cable to monitor. Connect to integrated grpahics on I/O

6. Reboot

7. See if you can now enter windows normally.

8. I need a copy of the dump file if you can get one attach as a zipped file
Windows
Mini Dumps
right click dump file
hold mouse on send to
compressed file on desktop
on reply on this site click upload file
 

zebragoose

Jacob
Thread Starter
Joined
Mar 10, 2016
Messages
8
Thanks so much for this advice. See my replies/questions below. I will try this tonight and report back with what you ask. Many thanks.

1. Welcome to Tech Support Guy

2. I do not think it is the cause of the problem but when running LiveUpdate 6 MSI recommend Antivirus is turned off - did you please and What is Antivirus please.
I believe I failed to have the antivirus turned off for this. I'm running Avast (basic free version)

3. I suspect on first examination it is as you say an update and I suspect it is graphics
That motherboard comes with integrated graphics in your Intel processor

Onboard

Graphics
1x VGA port, supporting a maximum resolution of 1920x1200 @ 60Hz

1x HDMI® port, supporting a maximum resolution of
[email protected], 24bpp/
[email protected], 24bpp/
[email protected], 36bpp

1x DVI-D port, supporting a maximum resolution of 1920x1200 @ 60Hz

So, is what you're saying is that I should I completely disconnect my video card to troubleshoot this? Would I then re-install the video card later, or do you think my video card is bad?

4. S0 your Intel i7 has
Processor Graphics ‡ Intel® HD Graphics 4600
connect to those on the I/O plate and set primary graphics in BIOS

These are instructions for what settings to specify within the BIOS after connecting as you describe, correct?

Integrated Graphics Configuration

Adjusts integrated graphics settings for optimum system. Press <Enter> to enter the sub-menu.
Initiate Graphic Adapter [PEG]
Selects a graphics device as the primary boot device.
[IGD] Integrated Graphics Display.
[PEG] PCI-Express Graphics Device.

Integrated Graphics Share Memory [64M]
Selects a fixed amount of system memory allocated to the onboard graphics. This item defines the exact memory size shared to the onboard graphics. [Options: 32M, 64M, 128M, 256M]

DVMT Memory [256MB]
DVMT memory can dynamically allocate system memory for running graphics intensive applications, such as 2D/3D games. [Options: 128MB, 256MB, Maximum]

5. Disconnect internal graphics cable to monitor. Connect to integrated grpahics on I/O

6. Reboot

7. See if you can now enter windows normally.

8. I need a copy of the dump file if you can get one attach as a zipped file
Windows
Mini Dumps
right click dump file
hold mouse on send to
compressed file on desktop
on reply on this site click upload file
 

Macboatmaster

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Messages
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When you reply please type your reply in the box that appears and not by clicking reply on my post which then automatically quotes all back to me
As you can see it makes it hard to find your reply from my quote

Try simply disconnecting the cable from the graphics output to the monitor
connect to the I/O plate graphics port and set BIOS as shown for primary graphics on integrated
 

zebragoose

Jacob
Thread Starter
Joined
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Messages
8
Got it. Sorry about that. I completely disconnected the stand alone video card last night and attempted to boot with the same result as before. I now understand what you mean and will adjust settings as you describe and report back. Thank you for your patience and assistance.
 

Macboatmaster

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Do you mean disconnected as I suggested or when you say completely do you mean you took the card out
See if you can send me the dump file please
If you took the card completely out then the BSOD is clearly not the card driver
Safe Mode as I am sure you know loads a minimal set of drivers and the windows VGA driver -
Presuming it is not the card we will have to look elsewhere
The dump will help as I can analyse it with a Microsoft tool
 

zebragoose

Jacob
Thread Starter
Joined
Mar 10, 2016
Messages
8
I took the card out completely to rule it out as the problem. I'll get back to this tonight, but I can't copy the dump file because my computer isn't able to copy and send data since its not connected to the internet. Sorry,I may be a lost cause. I may just do a complete reinstall.
 

zebragoose

Jacob
Thread Starter
Joined
Mar 10, 2016
Messages
8
Short of transcribing the entire dump file to my phone(how I'm sending these messages), I don't know how I would send with a non-functioning computer. I really do appreciate your time and help. Thank you for trying!
 

Macboatmaster

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I would not if I was you - as yet anyway
You do not need to connect to the net
you copy the file to a flash pen
connect to another computer and send it me
 

zebragoose

Jacob
Thread Starter
Joined
Mar 10, 2016
Messages
8
Sorry for the delay. In the last few days, I've been unable to even boot in safe mode, only access bios, so there is no dump file to send. Can anything be derived from the blue screen about what I might try? I attempted just reinstalling Windows...formatted the c:/ drive and installed. Looked like things were installing fine, then at first prompt in inhalation process to restart, I receive the same blue screen as before. At this point, the only things in my computer are the dvd drive (which works because the Windows install disk works), the mother board, the memory, and the processor. Would a problem with the mother board cause this error message? Thank you for your thoughts.
 

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Macboatmaster

Trusted Advisor
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Try going into setup and ensuring that optimal defaults is loaded
I cannot realistically relate the uncorrectable hardware error to a fault on the actual hardware
The coincidence seems too great
That error is not always actual hardware but can be a setting in BIOS or indeed a driver

If that does not work we will explore further
 

zebragoose

Jacob
Thread Starter
Joined
Mar 10, 2016
Messages
8
I wanted to report back in case anyone has this same problem and stumbles across this thread...One tiny change in the bios immediately fixed this issue. I changed the setting labeled EIST within the overclock settings sub menu to "disabled." I have no idea if or how this will affect performance, but no more blue screens. At some point I will try to flip it back on and do some research about what this does, but for now system is running fine. Incredibly frustrating that this tiny problem is what caused all the headache. Oh well.20160315_231125.jpg
 

Macboatmaster

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Indeed#
Try going into setup and ensuring that optimal defaults is loaded
I cannot realistically relate the uncorrectable hardware error to a fault on the actual hardware
The coincidence seems too great
That error is not always actual hardware but can be a setting in BIOS or indeed a driver
as I said
Perhaps my suggestion
I would not if I was you - as yet anyway
saved you the
I may just do a complete reinstall.

Mark it solved please by clicking the mark solved button on your post
 
Last edited:

zebragoose

Jacob
Thread Starter
Joined
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Messages
8
I very much appreciate your help. In fairness, the default bios settings did not resolve. Default settings had that component enabled. I manually turned it off (blind luck). I did do a complete reinstall, but you are correct in that if I had changed this setting at the time, it would have resolved without doing that. I'm just clarifying so that if others come across this, they realize that the suggestion to reset to default bios settings will not resolve, but potentially adjusting the one I mentioned may. Thank you again.
 

Macboatmaster

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You did well
EIST of course is
Enhanced Intel SpeedStep Technology

I would not have found it, but I cannot understand how defaults do not reset it unless it is enabled by default - but I did not think it was
I thought and I have learnt a new aspect that default settings - set all back to norm including OC settings
 
Last edited:
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