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wireless signal distance

Discussion in 'Networking' started by xtreampb, Feb 14, 2007.

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  1. xtreampb

    xtreampb Thread Starter

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    i am trying to get internet and i can set up a wireless router at my grandpas house the prob is that i live a few acres away with pine trees as interference i am wondering if i can get a wireless router what do i need to look for as in signal stregnth and do i need a signal booster and if so where do i get one.
    btw this is leagal b/c i am getting this signal from my grandfather or from what i have been told it is leagal
     
  2. JohnWill

    JohnWill Retired Moderator

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    Well, the fact that you have trees in the way is going to GREATLY complicate any wireless signal transmission. Truthfully, I'm somewhat dubious as to the likelihood of success.
     
  3. xtreampb

    xtreampb Thread Starter

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    unless i go satlite it aint goin to happen b/c if i run it undergroud it will more than likley get snaped b/c of all of the farm tilling and roots being pulled out of the ground...and it will be cheaper not to go satlite so thx.
     
  4. JohnWill

    JohnWill Retired Moderator

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    You need a lower frequency link that will cut through obstructions, 2.4ghz is very sensitive to obstructions.
     
  5. xtreampb

    xtreampb Thread Starter

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    so what would you suggest
     
  6. JohnWill

    JohnWill Retired Moderator

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    I don't have any specific product recommendations, never had a need to do this. What I'm saying is that 2.4ghz signals won't fare well with obstructions, but lower frequencies will. I'd start by searching on wireless links other than 802.11b/g. I'd also be prepared to pay a lot more than WiFi prices.
     
  7. rbrager

    rbrager

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    I would look into high gain directional antennas for both ends. Cantennas are pretty good and are easy to make. All you need are two tin cans appx 3 in in diameter, some bare solid copper wire, and a couple of connectors. Google "cantennas", corner reflector antennas, and "hi gain antennas".

    Lucent Technologies makes a hi gain antenna as does Hawking Industries. They get 11 to 15 DBi. Each 3 DBi is a double in effective power. Cantennas get about 12 DB. RF cable to carry a 2.4 MHZ is very lossy. The price for a cable that isn't lossy would cost a fortune.

    Trees are a big problem - maybe some careful work with a chainsaw would help if you own the trees (just kidding).
     
  8. O111111O

    O111111O

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    If you want to do this properly, you will need LOS in the Fresnelzone of the beam of your antenna.

    Generally speaking, the minimum aperture of the Freznelzone for a given beam is 65%. To achieve that over distance you will possibly have to raise your antenna for each end on a mast or building pitch. This will allow you to clear obstructions and reach the peak Freznel or the antenna "sweet spot"

    You can calculate this with: h1 * (D -d) + h2 * d>_L*D
    h1,h2 = heights of the two towers
    D= distance of separation between two points
    L = height of obstruction
    d = distance of separation of the obstruction from location 1

    To calculate nth Freznel (beam based on distance) you calculate with:
    R(n)=M^n/f D1D2/D1+D2 where R (n) is the radius of the nth Fresnelzone
    M= 17.3, R (n) in meter and D1,D2 in km

    If you're looking for reference for antenna supplies for outdoor equipment:
    http://www.cisco.com/en/US/products/hw/wireless/ps469/products_data_sheet09186a008022b11b.html


    If you have issues with the math, might I suggest you do something as simple as walk/estimate the path by line of site (a measurement wheel would do you well). This will tell you how long you need to shoot the signal. Then, to gauge height you can do something as simple as raise a helium balloon on string during a calm day, and have a counterpart at your far end tell you when they can see the top of your balloon. Measure the length of the string to give you an approximation of how high the boom will need to be.


    Once you have an idea of what you're up against you can see what type of antenna/how much money you have to spend to tackle this. I left you the Cisco link above if you want something commercial. Or as others have suggested without any specifics, build a "Cantenna". If you decide to go that route, I can help you with can length/radius optimization to create effect on your beam.

    Good luck.
     
  9. rbrager

    rbrager

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    xtreampb,

    Does your telephone co offer DSL in your area? Is there a cable provider within distance.
     
  10. xtreampb

    xtreampb Thread Starter

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    we dont have a home phone line

    we are surrounded by farms so if we put a cable in the ground it will be more than likely to be scliced by the disks that come through to disk up the soil
     
  11. rbrager

    rbrager

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    What about a Wireless Internet card? Sprint cellular has been claiming that it can download faster to just about anywhere. The only place I've been that doesn't have signal is Holmes County, OH. In Lancaster, PA the signal was 5 by 5. the Amish there use cell phones for buisness.
     
  12. O111111O

    O111111O

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    If you can't go wireless, surely you can trench or have a contractor tunnel bore.

    Trench well below the frost line/agricultural line, and have some direct burial fiber laid in. (I'm talking 4-6 feet down)
     
  13. JohnWill

    JohnWill Retired Moderator

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    Verizon buries their FiOS fiber conduit less than a foot deep, and I'm in PA. I can assure you that the frost line goes below that most winters here. :)
     
  14. O111111O

    O111111O

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    Yeah, I was thinking more along the lines of xtreampb's mentioned agricultural needs. I kinda doubt a tiller is going to be down your street anytime soon making ready for the next corn planting. Also, as a carrier Verizon is notorious for not paying attention to standards as such. They're the #1 outage carrier in the world.

    Believe it or not, the goverment has a standard and a form. RUS Bulletin 345-150, and the USDA has a publication.

    Bury the cable 6 feet deep. Unless somebody is running a back-ho or drilling for a well, it should suffice.
     
  15. JohnWill

    JohnWill Retired Moderator

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    FWIW, Comcast came and ran a replacment cable for my TV, and they used their little knife blade cable laying machine that puts it about 6" deep, so it's not just Verizon. At least Verizon put the fiber in a conduit for a little extra protection. :)
     
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